Second Life Bar Association Meeting TranscriptJuly 14, 2007
Benjamin Noble: I'll start the formal meeting in a second, but I just want to remind everyone that we take a transcript of these, so we'll be "on the record" for the website.
Solomon Cortes: Hi Jessica
Jessica Holyoke: hi solomon, how are you?
Solomon Cortes: Fine, thank you. Nice to see you again.
Benjamin Noble: Okay, let's get started.
Benjamin Noble: Thanks everybody, for coming. At least here, it's beautiful out, so I'm going to keep this moving and try to get us done fairly quickly today.
Benjamin Noble: First, admin updates.
Benjamin Noble: Beathan Vale has very kindly offered us the use of a fairly large block of space at his Justice Center.
Benjamin Noble: Beathan - do you want to talk about that for a second? I'd love it if you would since I'm not completely familiar with the project. Then we can discuss, if needed. I like the idea a lot.
Benjamin Noble: And the build is looking great.
Beathan Vale: OK
Beathan Vale: I have purchased a sim at auction -- called "Malfelonius" -- where I am building a "law and justice center"
Beathan Vale: It will have multiple large rooms for use as courtroom or large meeting rooms, offices (for indivs and groups) and a tp bank (organized to put avs in touch with RL lawyers in the RL jurisdiction)
Benjamin Noble: Just a quick reminder for anyone showing up now that we are taking a transcript for the web site.
Benjamin Noble: Sorry, go on, Beathan.
Beathan Vale: I plan to donate space -- at no or minimal rent -- to the SLBA and other law organizations to encourage a central location for law activities to make it easier for people to find us
Beathan Vale: I have a landmark for anyone interested
Cat Galileo: would you like a law library? =)
Beathan Vale: the building is based on the Miami Courthouse -- which is an incredible building
Benjamin Noble: Send me the landmark, Beathan, and I'll put it in a group notice after the meeting.
Beathan Vale: Cat -- I would love a law library
Vanora McMillan: Cat- I second that!
Beathan Vale: I was working up something based on lawblogs -- but I would like professional help for certain\
Benjamin Noble: I've seen the Miami cthouse. It really is stunning, and the build at Melfelonius is looking great, last time I checked.
Benjamin Noble: *Mal
Beathan Vale: the parject is around 50% done
Beathan Vale: thanks for listening
Benjamin Noble: Will you take questions?
Beathan Vale: of course
Gert Waydelich: no question... the project seems to me fantastic
Benjamin Noble: Anybody want to ask Beathan anything - I'll start by saying I'm super impressed and really appreciate the offer, so a big thanks from me.
Vanora McMillan: I'm good - just a comment - Excellent! I can't wait till i't sfinsihed!
Benjamin Noble: Who is doing the build? Do you have help?
Cat Galileo: sounds exciting :-)
Vanora McMillan: I can try to help build!
Beathan Vale: the builder is Mizou Vavoom -- she is great -- but she is also working alone , which is slow
Benjamin Noble: Vanora - we'll need help with the office space for the SLBA for sure, even if they can't use you on the primary project.
Beathan Vale: she might appreciate help -- but I don't want to step on her toes
Benjamin Noble: She *is* good. That's great.
Beathan Vale: it is a professional build -- I am paying Mizou by the hour
Benjamin Noble: Beathan - are you ultimately hoping to make money on the build, renting space to lawyers, etc?
Beathan Vale: I am hoping that it will generate revenue to cover my costs at some point -- land purchase, build costs, and tier
Beathan Vale: if I break even, I will be happy
Jessica Holyoke: and if you do the referall [;;[]
Jessica Holyoke: \
Jessica Holyoke: (sorry dog)
Beathan Vale: but, I have other SL commercial projects which are doing OK --so I am not relying on profit from this project
Jessica Holyoke: will the referrals to other SL lawyers be dependent on licensure?
Beathan Vale: Jessica -- that depends on the case
Benjamin Noble: Okay, to keep this official, I'm going to make a motion. I move that the SLBA instruct Benjamin Noble to negotiate office space with Beathan at the Justice and Law Center. Is there a second?
Beathan Vale: I intend to set up a tp bank, which will be organized by licensure -- so avs can select people based on licensure
Geri Kuhn: second
Beathan Vale: because there is no SL law licensure system, I expect to have a"SL law" tp bank that will not be dependent on licensure
Jessica Holyoke nods at Beathan
Benjamin Noble nods. Let's call the question. All in favor, say Aye.
Cat Galileo: aye
Vanora McMillan: Aye
Hernan Fitzgerald: aye
Jessica Holyoke: aye
Geri Kuhn: aye
Dreamingen Writer: Aye
Win Writer: aye
Beathan Vale: abstain for obvious reasons
Benjamin Noble: All opposed vote "Nay"
Benjamin Noble: Abstention noted.
Benjamin Noble: Measure passes.
Benjamin Noble: I'm going to go off agenda for a brief moment (call it new business) so Cat can talk briefly.
Benjamin Noble: Cat?
Cat Galileo: Hi, folks, I'm the law librarian over on Info Islands project --
Cat Galileo: I invite you to come visit us, i am working on a new exhibit on court cases re virtual worlds
Cat Galileo: also any input/ suggestions are welcome
Cat Galileo: also, I have a new version of my Directory for anyone that wants it, or wants to be listed in it
Cat Galileo: and if there are groups that would like a free vendor distribuing the directory, I have one ready to go
Cat Galileo: (can be seen at the Pro Bono headquarters and library)
Cat Galileo: and at http://www.ceratops.net/lawspot/
Cat Galileo: thanks for your time!
Benjamin Noble: Thanks, Cat. I encourage folks to check that out. It's coming together really nicely.
Benjamin Noble: Elections are next on the agenda.
Ashcroft Burnham: :-)
Benjamin Noble: I finalized the bylaws a couple of weeks ago.
Benjamin Noble: Visit the forums to see them. http://www.slba.info has a link.
Benjamin Noble: In sum, there are three positions that will be elected before the end of July.
Benjamin Noble: Elections will be held the last week of July (specifically, July 23-29).
Benjamin Noble: Self-nominations will take place in the forums starting Monday, the 16th. I'll create a thread and set for the parameters for each office.
Benjamin Noble: I encourage everybody who wants to be actively involved in shaping the organization to consider running for this --- the first elected officers of the SLBA.
Benjamin Noble: I'll remain on as President until January, but we'll be electing a President-Elect who will take over then.\
Benjamin Noble: The other two positions (VP finance, VP communications) will take over immediately. That way, there will always be overlap in administrations.
Benjamin Noble: Shoot me a note if you want to talk about time committments, etc.
Benjamin Noble: Basically, the presidency takes 10-15 hours a month, and I expect the other offices to take around 10. But they are what you make them -- for instance, I could see a VP Comm overhauling the website pretty easily, so it could be more if you want it to be.
Benjamin Noble: I'll open this for questions, etc. but I'm going to stick to this plan absent a compelling reason to change it just so we get an organizational structure in place.
Benjamin Noble: Once it's there, that structure can change things more easily and fairly than I can by fiat.
Benjamin Noble: Okay - check the forums for further discussion.
Cat Galileo gave you Galileo Law Directory 1.13.
Benjamin Noble: Next on the agenda is the Metaverse Republic -- Ashcroft, do you want to talk about this a little bit? I should note that it's not a formal project of the SLBA, but we've got some members involved and I like the direction it is going so far. I know Ashcroft can tell you more about it.
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you very much, Ben :-)
Mondrian Lykin yells in approvation
Mondrian Lykin: lol
Ashcroft Burnham: I shan't be terribly long because there's a lot more information around in writing if you all want it.
Benjamin Noble grins. Mondrian is the publicty arm of the Metaverse Republic.
Ashcroft Burnham: (The website http://www.metaverserepublic.org will soon be updated with more information)
Ashcroft Burnham: But the basic idea is, I hope you'll agree, rather interesting: it's a system of law and justice for SecondLife that has a real means of enforcement, based on distributed, scripted banishment.
Vanora McMillan nobs approvingly
Iona Nikolaidis: Ashcroft, I have a question, if I may?
Ashcroft Burnham: People or entire communities consisting of one or more sims subscribe to a database with the names of banned avatars on it, such that those avatars are banned from all teh subscribed land.
Ashcroft Burnham: (In a minute, Iona, let me finish first :-) )
Ashcroft Burnham: The names of the people on the database are put there by a court, which has banishment as its ultimate sanction, but uses that to enforce other things, such as orders of compensation, restitution, injunctions, etc.
Ashcroft Burnham: Everybody who subscribes, either directly, or indirectly through belonging to a subscribing local community, gets to vote in elections to a democratic parliament.
Ashcroft Burnham: That parliament, in turn, gets to pass laws binding on the courts.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, it's a comprehensive justice and democratic system for SecondLife :-)
Mondrian Lykin: title red The Metaverse Republic rocks
Ashcroft Burnham: We've already got a dedicated team of people working on our constitution, as well as on the management and technical side of things.
Ashcroft Burnham: We also have a number of candidates for recruitment already.
Ashcroft Burnham: We're still looking for more people who might be interested in working on either the (1) constitutional; (2) management; or (3) techincal teams (and one is not limited to just one team); anyone interested, please contact me, Michel Manen, Mondrian Lykin or Kristy Laval after the meeting.
Ashcroft Burnham: If anyone would like more information, I have a notecard with a summary of how the system will work :-)
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you :-)
Ashcroft Burnham: Iona, you had a question?
Iona Nikolaidis: Yes, thanks
Iona Nikolaidis: What would an avatar have to do to be banished?
Mondrian Lykin: wooot!
Iona Nikolaidis: That is, what behavior results in that sanction?
Ashcroft Burnham: Something very bad :-) It'd be a common law system, so there wouldn't be codes set out in advance covering everythign.
Iona Nikolaidis: So you would not look to the SL Terms of Service for that, correct?
Ashcroft Burnham: However, breach of a court order would usually result in banishment, as would other serious misconduct.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, that's right. It's up to Linden Lab to enforce the terms of service. Tha'ts a contract between LL and the users.
Ashcroft Burnham: This system is more about the relationship between users and each other.
Iona Nikolaidis: Great, thanks.
Vanora McMillan: excellent!
Ashcroft Burnham: :-)
Vanora McMillan: I love it Ash!
Jessica Holyoke: What would you do about alt abuse?
Hernan Fitzgerald: thank ashcroft
Solomon Cortes: Ascroft, may I also ask a question? Ben, do we have time?
Jessica Holyoke: or using alts
Ashcroft Burnham: Incidentally, to all the existing candidates, we'll be having interviews a little while after the meeting to-day :-)
Vanora McMillan: Jass - good question, I have the same...
Ashcroft Burnham: As to alts, Linden Lab is going to introduce soon a system of avatar authentication. Although that won't entirely stop alt-abuse by petty griefers, it will, for example, prevent abuses of power by people holding two positions that are supposed to be the subject of the separation of the powers by using alts.
Benjamin Noble: Yes, let's let Ashcroft take a few questions.
Benjamin Noble: We're doing well time wise this week.
Jessica Holyoke: wait, what system are you talking about Ashcroft?
Ashcroft Burnham: Also, people might well increasingly set their land to "adult" to prevent anyone other than verified avatars accessing it.
Ashcroft Burnham: The avatar authentication system that Linden Lab annouced recently.
Ashcroft Burnham: And, thank you, Ben.
Jessica Holyoke: that's age verification, not avatar verification, which has significant lmitation
Jessica Holyoke: s
Jessica Holyoke: *limitations
Clock Face (Real Life Time): Resetting clock...
Clock Face (Real Life Time): Time Zone --- GMT -8
Ashcroft Burnham: Incidentally, Cat, we'd find it *very* useful to have an in-world law library pertaining specifically to Metaverse Republic law :-)
Mondrian Lykin: age verification goes thruogh identitifcation verification
Jessica Holyoke: What robin describes doesn't address the problem you're addressing
Jessica Holyoke: sorry, that's Robin Linden
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, it's not *just* age, though :-) The system means that one will have to supply RL information to a third party company so that one is verified as over a certain age.
Vanora McMillan: Isn't there UUID verification?
Cat Galileo: Great, love to talk to you about that :-)
Jessica Holyoke: not sure what UUID verification is.
Ashcroft Burnham: But it also means that there's a limit on the number of verified avatars that one can have: quite possibly one. In any event, people would have to pay to verify, so it makes alt abuse expensive.
Ashcroft Burnham: Likewise, Cat :-)
Cat Galileo: Back in a bit
Ashcroft Burnham: The Lindens have expressed some interest in the project, too, recently :-) Jessica Holyoke: as of now, there's no requirement to verify, are you suggesting that you would require it, to confirm identity?
Vanora McMillan: Well, there are ID keys that are set for everything in SL... for example, if one has an ALT that ID key will be matched to the original AV... and so forth...
Ashcroft Burnham: So, anybody who'd like more information, IM me for a notecard summary :-) Anybody who'd like to join the Constitutioanl Team, IM me; anybody hwo'd liek to join the management team, IM Michel Manen, and anybody who'd like to join the techincal team, IM Kristy Laval :-)
Benjamin Noble nods. Thanks, Ashcroft.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jessica: we'd require identity verification in certain cotexts, yes.
Ashcroft Burnham: And thank you for the floor, Ben :-)
Benjamin Noble: To keep this from geting too technical, let's take specifics beyond this to private IM with Ashcroft or the forums.
Benjamin Noble: The project looks like it is gaining some real momentum, and I like the name!
Benjamin Noble: Thanks again for filling everybody in about it, Ashcroft.
Benjamin Noble: Next on the agenda is the verifiction service that we've been batting around. There's been some discussion in the forums, but I don't feel that everyone has really hashed out the potential benefits/problems yet and it's the thorniest issue we've hit so far.
Benjamin Noble: So I'm proposing this - I come up with a formal proposal for a verification service based on forum discussions over the next month, and present it for a vote, modification, etc. at the next meeting.
Benjamin Noble: Anybody who wants to weigh in between now and then we'll have a thread on this in the forums.
Benjamin Noble: So I'll move that, so we can discuss: that the SLBA direct Benjamin Noble to prepare a formal proposal for SLBA verification for the next meeting.
Benjamin Noble: Discussion?
Rose Springvale: i'll second your motion, as a parliamentarian at heart
Benjamin Noble nods.
Hernan Fitzgerald: nop
Benjamin Noble: Okay... vote? Ayes for yes, Nays for nos.
Rose Springvale: Aye
Geri Kuhn: Aye
Win Writer: Aye
Gert Waydelich: Aye
Hernan Fitzgerald: aye
Iona Nikolaidis: aye
Ercila Robbins: aye
Solomon Cortes: Aye
Vanora McMillan: Aye
Dreamingen Writer: aye
Cat Galileo: aye
Jessica Holyoke: aye
Mondrian Lykin: can I say "no", just to spice up the thing?
Hernan Fitzgerald: jaja
Mondrian Lykin: Cheesy
Benjamin Noble grins at Mondrian.
Benjamin Noble: Okay. Measure passes.
Benjamin Noble: That's it for this month folks - I promised a short one.
Iona Nikolaidis: Thanks!
Benjamin Noble: Thanks to everyone for coming, and please start thinking about offices and weigh in on the threads in the forums. Lots of good debates going on there.
Hernan Fitzgerald: thanks Benjamin
Vanora McMillan: Thank you!!
Iona Nikolaidis: Script run-time error
Iona Nikolaidis: Stack-Heap Collision
Dreamingen Writer: Thank you
Vanora McMillan: And thank you Ash and Cat!!! .
Benjamin Noble nods. I'll try to do a social event in a couple of weeks for more informal discussions.
Ashcroft Burnham: :-D
Win Writer: Than you, President
Benjamin Noble: I declare the meeting adjourned. We're off the record.
Created on ... April 13, 2008