Second Life Bar Association Meeting
January 19, 2008

Transcript

Benjamin Noble: First, let me remind everybody that we take a transcript of these meetings, and put it up at http://slba.info.

Benjamin Noble: We have a really short agenda today.

Benjamin Noble: That is good, as I can't stay for a terribly long meeting, and, as always, it's Saturday and I think we all want to go outside and play.

Benjamin Noble: Today Cat has a couple of announcements, and then I want to talk about modifying our dues policy to get rid of yearly dues.

Benjamin Noble: The only other thing is a personal note.

Benjamin Noble: I want to thank you all for making this such a fantastic first year for the SLBA.

Benjamin Noble: I had no expectation it would grow like it has, and I can't wait to see what happens next.

Benjamin Noble: As some of you know, my term ends at the end of this month, and Solomon Cortes (who was logging in and out, so may be having trouble getting on right now) takes over as President.

Benjamin Noble: So this is the last meeting I'll chair. Thanks, everybody. It has been a lot of fun, and I am so happy to see the organization in such great health a year after we started it.

Benjamin Noble: I'm going to turn to Cat now, who has a couple of projects in the works she'd like to tell you about.

Cat Galileo: morning folks

Cat Galileo: as you might know, I'm a law librarian in SL as well as RL

Cat Galileo: I'm running a couple of law library projects this spring/summer that I am hoping will interest some of you

Cat Galileo: I will be running an AALL (American Assn of Law Librarians) workshop this April - August n SL if anyone is interested in participating. It will be open to SL lawyers and law students as well as librarians.

Cat Galileo: Participants will get some tutorials on SL , as needed, and then create a display or presentation suitable for permanent installation in the SL law library.

Cat Galileo: The hope is that we will get some creative ideas about how to use the medium (virtual worlds) beyond just making powerpoint displays, links to web pages, and Thinc books

Benjamin Noble: Cat - is this something that you could use some volunteer help with?

Cat Galileo: We will have a little $ to hire programmers or builders for projects that require them, as funding permits, since I actually got a grant :)

Cat Galileo: I would like to solicit some SL Lawyers to perhaps talk to the participants about what SL offers lawyers * and law librarians

Cat Galileo: so i may bug you all, unless I get volunteers :D

Cat Galileo: you're also welcome to take part if you want

Cat Galileo: this will start in April and have a concluding exhibition in Sept.

Cat Galileo: more info at www.lawspotonline.com soon

Cat Galileo: ....

Cat Galileo: the second thing is to let you know that I'm opening 2 branch libraries *fingers crossed* soon

Cat Galileo: one on Depo Island 6, and one just 4 floors down from here

Monday Beam smiles.

Cat Galileo: I would love to include Residents' writings or other projects if you have some you are willing to share

Cat Galileo: so I may bug some of you to do a talk too :)

Cat Galileo: I also would like to run some CLE style talks (and I'm lookinginto getting accredited from Cal. to actually ofFer CLE)

Cat Galileo: thanks for your time, I'll be around later for questions if any

Cat Galileo: thank you

Benjamin Noble: Thanks, Cat.

Benjamin Noble: I'll also note that I'm working with the SciTech section of the ABA to do co-sponsored events with CLE, and while it takes a while to set it up that way, it may be faster than getting accredited yourself, so we can talk about that later too.

Cat Galileo: great, thank you

Benjamin Noble: The only other item on the agenda is in regard to dues.

Benjamin Noble: We have the happy problem of having, frankly, too much money.

Cat Galileo: free beer for all!

Sloan Skjellerup: hehe

Benjamin Noble: We need to keep some dues, I think, because we do occasionally have expenses (for example, we paid for the interior build out here and I bought a tray of fake donuts for the last social).

Lexis Looming: Ben will we getting any report on credentialing progress? We talked before about those expenses as well, by the way

Benjamin Noble: But with the generous donation of the space from Beathan Vale, we don't have ongoing costs associated with virtual land, which was a big part of my initial budgeting.

Benjamin Noble: So I'm proposing a change in the bylaws, changing "Annual Dues" to "One-Time Dues" (keeping it at l$500).

Benjamin Noble: That would mean that members would not have to pay each year, which would be nice for everybody, keep us from having too much money accumulate, and also, frankly, avoid a giant administrative hassle because groups have no easy tool to collect ongoing obligations.

Benjamin Noble: Open for discussion...

Erica Dalglish: that only works if the organization keeps growing

Lincoln Beck: good idea Ben

Fleure Homewood: I think that is a fine idea

Legal Writer: I fear that stopping collecting ongoing dues may set a precedent for the future, when we may need the fund later.

Jessica Holyoke: But is the money invested in a bank?

Benjamin Noble laughs. No, unsurprisingly, we have not invested it in a "bank."

Lexis Looming: So are those that have paid already considered "paid up"?

Jessica Holyoke: why don't we make the dues nominal now, say L$25 continuing and retaining the ability to raise it

Legal Writer: One thought would be to set up a "grant" fund and fund projects as they come up, but reduce the dues in light of the surplus.

Benjamin Noble: That's right, Lexis. Everyone who is a member is paid up right now.

Cat Galileo: what exactly are our ongoing expenses -- and do we think we might want to sponsor events in the future that would have costs? (broadcasts, co-sponsoring charity stuff, I dunno)

Cristalle Karami: is any money given to Beathan for rent?

Erica Dalglish: i'm trying to figure out a way around the "no growth"problem. could we have "fundraiser' to meet immediate needs, like building nespace or something?

Benjamin Noble: We have essentially no ongoing expenses. Beathan gives us the land rent free.

Cristalle Karami: although we may have this overage, it should go toward the land if that's the case

Lexis Looming: Credentialing will involve some expense

Benjamin Noble: We could have fundraisers for particular things.

Kivati Dovgal: This may sound bad, but at the end of the year could you just boot everyone from the group[ and lower the dues; that way you clear out people who A) don't want to pay again, and B) don't use SL anymore

Benjamin Noble: Geri - do you know offhand what we have right now?

Jessica Holyoke: Erica does have a point about growth, and wouldn't credentialing's costs be borne by the credentialee?

Legal Writer: Fundraisers can be a hassle too. ;-)

Geri Kuhn: I don't know but I'll check.

Benjamin Noble: We are getting new members fast enough that it really adds up without annual dues.

Geri Kuhn: I'll be right back

Benjamin Noble nods. Geri is the VP of finance.

Benjamin Noble: She's checking the account where this is kept.

Lexis Looming: Yes we could charge the expense to the applicant

Benjamin Noble: Lexis - I think that is the idea with credentialling. It shouldn't be borne by everyone.

Lexis Looming: Weeding out inacitve disinterested members is a good point, though. Nominal dues will keep the roster trimmed to those who really want to belong

Benjamin Noble: That is a good point. Though I'm not sure it's worth the administrive hassle of trying to track down and collect money from now 250 people...

Benjamin Noble: That is probably the best reason to keep them -- but on the other hand, it is basically self selcting in terms of who logs in anyway.

Benjamin Noble: Geri is back...

Erica Dalglish: and i'm not sure -- how long do you have to be "inactive" before you get kicked out?

Lexis Looming: you would only have to neglect to re up your dues each year

Benjamin Noble: I wonder about that too, Erica. I mean, if somebody was off for a month during dues collection, that wouldn't be right really, since others are off for two months from time to time and pop back in.

Benjamin Noble: I wish the SL had a good mechanism for it too, but collecting yearly dues basically means building a spreadsheet, or else kicking everyone out and making them come back.

Lexis Looming: Once a year you can remember to pay. We all keep tickler calendars theoretically

Benjamin Noble: Both are somewhat unappealing.

Benjamin Noble nods.

Benjamin Noble: Gery - you back?

Benjamin Noble: Geri, sorry.

Geri Kuhn: Yes,

Geri Kuhn: 30,968

Geri Kuhn: This is what we have.

Benjamin Noble: Yeah... that's a fair bit.

Lexis Looming: We could use the funds to build a dispute resolution siystem

Benjamin Noble: I'm struggling to come up with how to reasonably spend even that, and we get a handful of new members every week.

Kivati Dovgal: that's in L$?

Benjamin Noble: Yes.

Geri Kuhn: Yes, Linden dollars

Geri Kuhn smiles

Benjamin Noble: Probably add 2000-2500 L$ a week with new members.

Lexis Looming: We so desparately need a dispute resolution system

Jessica Holyoke: transfer it out to an IOLTA account?

Benjamin Noble: Maybe $1500-$2500. Basically, it really adds up.

Cristalle Karami: i think a donation back to the justice center is appropriate.

Benjamin Noble: Lexis - I definitely like that idea in the long run.

Jessica Holyoke: oh, the SLBA funding a dispute resolution center is a bad idea

Benjamin Noble: Cristalle's idea is good too, though I think Beathan is happy for the advertising we get him (and I'll say here -- he is renting offices, so consider that if you want one).

Jessica Holyoke: on so many levels

Benjamin Noble: Hmm. I see where Jessica is going here, and I may agree. Bad potential for conflicts, I suppose.

Cristalle Karami: i also think donations to pro bono operations in SL would also be a good idea

Jessica Holyoke: that's one of the many reasons

Cristalle Karami: educational organizations

Cat Galileo: afk, kid shreiking

Lexis Looming: Funding and administering are not necessarily the same

Benjamin Noble: I do like doing some service with this... money.

Cristalle Karami: that own their own land

Benjamin Noble: But let me bring us back for a bit.

Benjamin Noble: We can talk about what to do with our money seperately, I want to focus on what we should do about the fact that we keep getting it first!

Lexis Looming: There do not need to be conflicts

Benjamin Noble nods. Let's table discussions of new plans for a bit.

Benjamin Noble: I'll foist that off on Solomon. ;)

Erica Dalglish: have you thought about lowering the entry fee go something below L$500?

Lexis Looming: Well we may be cancelling any discussion fo new plans rather than tabling them if we cancel funding

Solomon Cortes: ; )

Benjamin Noble: Just to be totally clear, we're not talking about getting rid of dues. Just making them one-time, at sign up.

Jessica Holyoke: Is there an SLBA alt that keeps the money?

Cristalle Karami: i don't think we should stop taking it in. we would be in the unhappy position of needing to reinstitute it if anything happened to Beathan.

Erica Dalglish: then at least it wouldn't build up so fast :-)

Geri Kuhn: Jessica, yes.

Benjamin Noble: Just doing that so far, we have accumulated over 30k linden.

Geri Kuhn: I have another avatar for that purpose

Benjamin Noble: And get another $1500-$2500 per week.

Jessica Holyoke: here's my thought, even if we eliminated yearly dues by an amendment to the by laws, is there anything in the by laws that would prevent that from being changed in the future?

Monday Beam giggles.

Monday Beam: Pardon me.

Benjamin Noble: If we stick with annual does -- currently set to be collected in a month or so, I think -- and, say, 100 people pay, we're talking about 50,000 more coming in right away. And I'm not sure if we need it.

Monday Beam turns his cell phone off.

Benjamin Noble: No, that's right Jessica, they could be added in again if necessary.

Dreamingen Writer: surely we could find something worthwhile to do with the money...education, scholarship, donations

Lexis Looming: Did you say we have over 250 members that paid $500L which would be $125,000 L but we only have $30,000L in the bank?

Lexis Looming: We must have had some expenses?

Benjamin Noble: No, we started imposing dues after many had already joined.

Cat Galileo: some of the earlier members didn't have to pay, and we paid to kit out this office

Jessica Holyoke: and wasn't it L$250 for awhile?

Benjamin Noble: We spent some on this build -- I think 30k or so. The rest has just added up.

Benjamin Noble nods.

Lexis Looming: I think everyone should pay the same for permanent membership if we do it that way

Solomon Cortes: I'm sorry I missed the intro to this discussion (couldn't connect) but I don't think we should be cutting down on fees. There are plenty of planned / new services we could provide that would not be possible without the dues we collect.

Benjamin Noble nods. I'm happy to go either way. I see good argument for leaving it and for changing it.

Jessica Holyoke: but do we have the records to go back and investigate?

Benjamin Noble: Leaving it certainly does justify Geri's job. :)

Benjamin Noble: Records for groups are terrible - there is no way to see even when people joined.

Jessica Holyoke: but again, growth of the organization means that there will be more people coming in

Lexis Looming: Seems this proposal works most to the benefit of those who have never paid anything yet and now never would

Jessica Holyoke: and more dues

Benjamin Noble: Here's what it comes down to for me - do we have a need for more than around 2000 L a week that we get from new members.

Benjamin Noble: If we have good reason to generate more funds, then annual dues make as much sense as any other way. But if not, then I'd be in favor of getting rid of them for ease of administration and as a nice thing do to for our membership.

Jessica Holyoke coughs "feted"

Legal Writer: If you want to get CLE credit from the states for future programs, that money could come in handy.

Sloan Skjellerup: you can you direct members to the website to register there

Lexis Looming: Thats why we come back to new plans

Solomon Cortes: Unless we have just ditched verification, we could easily eat through L$30K just on international phone charges... We could also use the money to support costs of arranging other events / services etc.

Lexis Looming: I think we should be able to fund new plans

Benjamin Noble: That is an excellent point from Legal Writer (and yes, I see what Lexis is saying about how this all ties in).

Lexis Looming: sol we agree the applicants will pay the cost of verification i think

Benjamin Noble nods. I agree with Lexis on that.

Benjamin Noble: Well.. at minimum, it sounds like there is no momentum for getting rid of them right now and mroe discussion is necessary -- is that right?

Benjamin Noble: We do not need to collect again until April, I think.

Erica Dalglish: yep

Benjamin Noble: So we have a couple of months to hash it out in the forums if we want to.

Fleure Homewood: Could you put it up to a membership vote?

Lexis Looming: The annual dues could be reduced but should not be abandoined IMHO

Cat Galileo: i would like to be able to do this all in SL, but it would be trivial to set up a web-based db with join dates and dues payments - just take a bit of admin

Sloan Skjellerup: first year 500 and 250 each after?

Benjamin Noble: (And for Geri to figure out how to administrate it).

Lexis Looming: I like Sloan's idea

Erica Dalglish: I like Sloakn;'s idea

Sloan Skjellerup: good thinking Cat

Geri Kuhn: Hmmm. okay

Lexis Looming: Good suggestion Cat

Benjamin Noble: You'll get help if you have to deal with this, Geri.

Cat Galileo: i'm working on one for my directory anyway :D

Geri Kuhn: Terrific, I will definitely ask for it.

Sloan Skjellerup: create a kiosk where they can pay thier dues when due

Cat Galileo: lets toss these ideas on web board

Benjamin Noble: Let's keep talking about it in the forums over the next month - http://slba.info has a link if you are new.

Benjamin Noble: Sounds good to me.

Benjamin Noble: That, folks, is all I have.

Lexis Looming: Ben the credentialing form proposal has been ion the forum for a month When can we vote and get that process started?

Legal Writer: We should all thank Ben for his fine service to the SLBA.

Dreamingen Writer: Here here

Jessica Holyoke: and founding it

Geri Kuhn: Yes!

Rose Springvale: Bravo Ben!

Dreamingen Writer: great JOB!

Benjamin Noble: I just put up a note, Lexis. I'm suggesting that you incorporate any suggestions made so far, post again, and then give a timetable for further comment.

Solomon Cortes: Absolutely.

Fleure Homewood: Good job Ben!

Benjamin Noble smiles.

Benjamin Noble: Thanks, everybody.

Mitch Hifeng: Thanks Ben

Cristalle Karami: thank YOU, Ben.

Ikon Schmooz: Thanks Ben

Benjamin Noble: And seriously, thank you all for being part of this. I see people here who were at the first meeting, and that is pretty cool. I look forward to seeing what happens next.

Benjamin Noble: Is there a motion to adjourn?

Legal Writer: You've done a great job, Ben.

Rose Springvale: so move

Benjamin Noble: Any objections, stand...

Lexis Looming applauds Ben's fine service

Legal Writer: Seconded

Solomon Cortes: Seconded!

Jessica Holyoke: second

Benjamin Noble: Without objection, motion carries.

Benjamin Noble grins.

Benjamin Noble: It's all yours, Solomon.