Second Life Bar Association Meeting Transcript
May 10, 2008

Solomon Cortes: Hello everyone. Welcom to our May meeting. May I now cal the meeting to order
Solomon Cortes: Thanks for attending today's meeting.
Solomon Cortes: Before we begin this is a reminder that our meetings are open to the public and that a transcript of the proceedings will be kept and posted on the association's website at www.slba.info.
Solomon Cortes: We have a number of items on the agenda but, before we move to them, I'd like to invite Geri to take the floor. As everyone knows, this association was founded by, and owes a huge debt of gratitude to Benjamin Noble. To mark Benjamin's contribution, we've asked Geri to make a short presentation on behalf of the association. Geri - over to you.
Geri Kuhn: Hi everyone
Benjamin Noble grins. So that's why you wanted to make sure I was coming.
Geri Kuhn: Yes, Ben!
Geri Kuhn: So Ben, please come up
Benjamin Noble smiles.
Ashcroft Burnham: :-D
Geri Kuhn: On behalf of the Exec. Board, we would like to present you with this gift (standing next to you)
Benjamin Noble: This is so great. I love it!
Julynn Lilliehook: Oh Boy!
Benjamin Noble: Thanks, everybody.
Geri Kuhn: We would like to thank you for your vision in founding the organization and seeing it off to a good start.
Ashcroft Burnham: :-D
Geri Kuhn: Thank you
Jimby Pomegranate: Thank you, Ben
Geri Kuhn: Be sure to read the inscription
Solomon Cortes: Thank you from all of us Ben.
Geri Kuhn: This statue was created by the talented artist Aerdrie Fabre who is standing in the back
Benjamin Noble: I really appreciate this, folks. I look forward to seeing where this organiztion goes next. It's been a fantastic first year, and I can tell it is in very good hands.
Geri Kuhn: She will transfer the ownership rights to you
Aerdrie Fabre smiles
Geri Kuhn: Thanks, again.
Benjamin Noble: Thanks. I'll pick it up now, and find a good place for it later on.
Julynn Lilliehook: Put it next to your Emmy!
Geri Kuhn: hehee
Benjamin Noble: Or maybe not... It can stay there, until we figure out permissions. ;)
Benjamin Noble: Thanks, everybody.
Solomon Cortes: Thanks Ben, and thanks Geri.
You: Yay!
Legal Writer: We should also congratulate Ben on his new book Virtual Law, which was just published
Jimby Pomegranate: I just got that yesterday!
Geri Kuhn: Yes!
Julynn Lilliehook: I am saving up to buy the book!
navets Potato: really? congrats. Are copies availabe here in SL?
Ashcroft Burnham: :-D
You: congratulations Ben
Julynn Lilliehook: Not for free
Queen Coronet claps in a congrats to Ben
Legal Writer: Ben is co-chair of the Virtual Worlds and Multiuser Online Games Committtee of the ABA Section of Science and Technology Law and we look forward to many great things out of that committee!

You: the ABA should release a limited no-copy free version for a week or something :)
Solomon Cortes: Ben - it is an understatement to thank you for your huge contribution to this group. We hope that we will coninue the group and help it grow and succeed in just the way you wanted for it, and in accordance with the high standards you have set for us!
Lincoln Beck: cool.... ;)
Benjamin Noble: Thanks, Legal, and everybody else. It's available at http://www.abanet.org/abastore/productpage/5450052 and I am working with them on an eventual e-distribution. ALso will be on Amazon (at a discount) in a bit.
Jimby Pomegranate: The ABA sent out copies to law libraries this past week
Benjamin Noble: Thank you, Solomon. I plan to remain very involved.
Solomon Cortes: All, and Ben particularly, I hope you won't mind if we now move on to the formal items on today's agenda.
Benjamin Noble: (FYI - the introductory chapter is on that site, free.) /self promotion off.
Benjamin Noble: Take it away, Solomon.
Solomon Cortes: In addition, I'd like to switch the order of the agenda items slightly, as Geri has to leave early, and I'd like to go through the topics on which I know Geri has some helpful input and comments to make first, before she needs to leave.
Solomon Cortes: So, to start with: I'd like to update you all on progress with the credentialing service.
Solomon Cortes: This is just to let you know that the final draft of the application form is now up in the forums for final comment. This draft has been prepared on the basis of the discussions and comments at the last meeting and in the forums. I propose that we leave it up for one more week, to provide a final opportunity for further comments. After that, unless there is a need to make any further material amendment, I'd like to propose that we adopt the form for use in our credentialling service. I'd also like to let you know that - in a historic moment for the group! - Ben and I verified each other today!
Julynn Lilliehook: TMI
Ashcroft Burnham: ROTFL!
Julynn Lilliehook: via webcam?
You: did you both pass? :D
navets Potato: are you both really yourselves?
Ashcroft Burnham is not sure that he's really him.
Solomon Cortes: We did. We checked each others' credentials on our respective bar society's sights, and then called and spoke to each other! We exist!
Benjamin Noble grins. I learned that I am, really, myself. Could have saved a lot on a 4 year degree in philosophy.
You: well, that's a relief!
navets Potato: no, I am sure it was the 4 year degree in philosophy that allowed you to achieve this historic moment
Solomon Cortes: So, the first topic I wanted to raise for discussion is whether / how much we should charge for credentialling.
Julynn Lilliehook: Does the application have a spot for scar/tattoos?
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Julynn Lilliehook: I wanna see
Legal Writer: Did you say "I am verified. Therefore, I am."?
navets Potato: I am sure it will be much harder for us english majors
Solomon Cortes: We had a quick discussion about that. As our CFO, Geri, would you like to discuss this briefly?
Geri Kuhn: Well basically we were thinking of a $!0.00 (U.S.) fee
Geri Kuhn: That would cover the cost of phone calls, if necessary
Ashcroft Burnham: A $0 fee? That sounds reasonable ;-)
Julynn Lilliehook thinks it's a bit steep
Geri Kuhn: Ten dollars
navets Potato: a little high, couldn't we be paid for doing it?
Geri Kuhn: 10.00
Solomon Cortes: I think Geri meant $10!
Geri Kuhn: yes
Geri Kuhn grins
Julynn Lilliehook thinks it's alot strrp
Ashcroft Burnham: US$ or L$?
Geri Kuhn: We are giving a benefit to the attorneys and may need to pay someone to do the verifying
Geri Kuhn: U.S. ten dollars
Julynn Lilliehook: cripes
Julynn Lilliehook: I am expected to pay someone $10 US to tell me I am who I am?
Solomon Cortes: Would it be helpful at this stage to ask two questions: (1) who here might contemplate using the service, and (2) if you are someone who would use it, would you pay that amount? I'm happy to provide my own comments, but I don't want to influence the discussion in any way, so I'll wait til last.
Ashcroft Burnham knows who he is for free.
You: no, to tell others :)
Legal Writer: I think $10 US is very reasonable. I hope it would even cover the costs involved.
Julynn Lilliehook: A one-time $10 US fee?
Geri Kuhn: This is a credental verification service
navets Potato: $10 is reasonable but we should each verify ech other and put the $ in the kitty for toehr uses
Jimby Pomegranate: i'd pay $10, it's reasonable
Legal Writer: I would use it, and gladly pay that amount.
Julynn Lilliehook: That is equal to 15 minutes of me getting my head bashed in by a judge while representing an indigent client in RL, but I will pay it.
You: I won't be using it, but I am not in practice
Solomon Cortes: Navets - I think that's the intention, with the one caveat that we would pay reasonable phone call expenses if they were claimed. All the other monies would accrue to the goup to cover other activities.
Julynn Lilliehook: Phone calls are free if you use Skype, Yahoo, Msn....
Julynn Lilliehook: No one should have to claim phone expenses theses days...
Solomon Cortes: May we put this to the vote then? I'd like to make the following proposal:
navets Potato: I vote for the $10 fee
navets Potato: some one second?
Jimby Pomegranate: I second the motion
Geri Kuhn: I think Solomon is typing a proposal
Julynn Lilliehook: ?me thinks navets needds to reread/read Robert's Rules ofOrder
navets Potato: just impatient
Lex Atlas: I am not going to use it at this time. I am not in the US and still unsure what kind of ethical problems practicing in-world poses in my country.
Solomon Cortes: 1 That we approve a US$10 charge for the credentialling service. (To be clear, this is a proposed annual fee). The proposal is also that the treasurer keeps a watching brief on charging, to ensure that we are able to cover any costs claimed, and that if the treasurer considers there arer reasons to propose a change in the fee, s/he will be free to do so at any general meeting.
Julynn Lilliehook: Not all of us envision practicing in-world, Lex...but it does lend credibility
Julynn Lilliehook: ANNUAL????
Legal Writer: Seconded
You: i think the proposal also assumes periodic re-verification?
You: or no?
Solomon Cortes: Julynn - yes, annual: we have to credential at least annually, for the service to have any meaning, so the costs need covering annually.
Geri Kuhn: Attorneys leave the Bar or get disbarred so it is a good idea to have some re-verification
Solomon Cortes: Exactly.
Solomon Cortes: So we have a proposal and a second. You
: may I comment? I dont' know rules of order either :)
Solomon Cortes: All those in favour?
Solomon Cortes: OK - wait.
Nancy Ducatillon: thanks
Lex Atlas: but the re-verification doesn't need to involve more phone calls, all you need is to check that the attorney is still on the bar's site
Solomon Cortes: Cat - please go ahead - but bear in mind that we have a couple of other topics for Geri to speak to, and she has time pressure today!
Ashcroft Burnham: (Are we voting yet?)
Benjamin Noble: Yes. As the parlimentary guy, discussion is open until someone "calls the question" (to the extent we are being formal about Roberts).
You: ok quickly, emphasise this is voluntary, not part of membership requirement, so it provides value for those who which to verify in world persona, but it is voluntary
You: done
You: *wish
Lex Atlas: may I comment?
Solomon Cortes: Absolutely - entirely voluntary. No requirement on any member to do this. It's a service they can use if they wish, but are not required to use.
Solomon Cortes: Lex - please go ahead. Then I'd like to take a vote. May I remind everyone that our meetings are open to the public, but only SLBA members may vote.
Lex Atlas: when voluntary becomes the standard, it becomes de facto mandatory.
Lex Atlas: If people start using this procedure, it might become a disadvantage for those who are not interested in it, for whatever reason.
You: my personal feeling is that by telling your 'clients' you rRL info you will not need verification, but if people wish for a credential I am willing to help with it
Solomon Cortes: Lex, I can tell you categorically, from my perspective, that this won't happen. The group is not just for lawyers. many of our members would not want to be verified, and could not be verified as lawyers. This is genuinely just for those that want to use the service. It will NOT be mandatory.
Solomon Cortes: In light of timings - let;s take Ash's comment, then vote.
Ashcroft Burnham: Lex: isn't that the point? The idea is that RL lawyers who *practise* RL law in SecondLife have a way of verifying to their potential clients that they really are RL lawyers. The question is whetehr that's best done through the SLBA or simply through the websites of the law firms in question.
Benjamin Noble: Also, to a degree, this is academic at this point, as there were months of debate on this, and it passed a vote by a wide margin.
Ashcroft Burnham: It'll be irrelevant to anyone who doesn't practise in SL :-)
Solomon Cortes: Yes. So to recap, the vote is on an annual US$10 fee, with the treasurer keeping a watching brief.
Solomon Cortes: All those in favour?
Geri Kuhn: aye
Ashcroft Burnham votes aye.
Legal Writer: Aye
Sam4 Courtois: Yes
Gelf Yalin: aye
navets Potato: aye
Miu Bailey: aye
Julynn Lilliehook: aye
Queen Coronet: aye
Sam4 Courtois: Yes
Solomon Cortes: Against?
Benjamin Noble: Aye
Lex Atlas: I'm against
Solomon Cortes: Abstentions?
Lex Atlas: (for democracy)
Nancy Ducatillon: yes
Nancy Ducatillon: (EngEng) -> yes
You: i abstain
Julynn Lilliehook never abstains
Lincoln Beck abstains
Solomon Cortes: On that basis....
Jimby Pomegranate: Aye
Solomon Cortes: The motion is carried.
Solomon Cortes: Thank you everyone.
Solomon Cortes: Geri - as time is tight, could you just briefly let people know where we are (a) with the seminar programme, and (b) quickly mention where we are in terms of annual renewals, and the transition to the new SL Bar Association group.
Solomon Cortes: Then we'll let you go!
Geri Kuhn: Okay great, thanks
Geri Kuhn: So we now have some dates for our seminars
Geri Kuhn: July 9, 16, 23, 30; 12:00 p.m.
Geri Kuhn: SL time
Lincoln Beck: saturdays?
Geri Kuhn: So far we Solomon confirmeed that he will be speaking first
Geri Kuhn: *Confirmed
Geri Kuhn: These are in July
Geri Kuhn: We will get the rest of the speakers confirmed and will announce them in the forum
Geri Kuhn: If anyone is interested in speaking at future seminars please IM me and we can plan for the future.
Geri Kuhn: As to dues the membership voted for annual dues.
Geri Kuhn: We will be transitioning to a new group name and that makes it a good time to charge the annual dues
Geri Kuhn: We have yet to work out the specifics but basically at the time you will register for the new group, you will be paying the dues
Lex Atlas: What about people who just joined (me!)
Geri Kuhn: We will announce the specifics online
Julynn Lilliehook: I am sorry...but why do we need the new group?
Lincoln Beck: trademarks....
Julynn Lilliehook: You can use SL
Geri Kuhn: We have already voted on this
You: technically atm we are Second Life Bar Assn
Julynn Lilliehook: Ah..I see
You: we hashed this out a bit last meeting - transcript on slba.info
Geri Kuhn: By the way we also have our second speaker confirmed for either the 16 or 23 - Legal Writer
Julynn Lilliehook: Still lloking for speakers?
Geri Kuhn: And the third
Geri Kuhn: for either the 23 or 30 - Cat Gallieo
Geri Kuhn: We can always use more speakers for the future, we have four already
Julynn Lilliehook: any particular topic?
Legal Writer: I will be speaking about in-world trademark infringement.
Solomon Cortes: Julyinn and others, please do volunteer - we'll be delighted to run further sessions. If you can IM Geri, we'll take this forwards. We're very excited about this programme, and hope everyone ho can will join us for the seminars.
Geri Kuhn: Thank you
Solomon Cortes: *who
Ashcroft Burnham wonders whether a talk on the Metaverse Republic would interest anyone.
Julynn Lilliehook: no
Julynn Lilliehook: hahahaha
Lincoln Beck: lol
Ashcroft Burnham: :-p
Solomon Cortes: Aschroft - I'm sure it would. Please just follow up with Geri.
Solomon Cortes: Geri - thanks for the updates.
You: i can add a page ont SLBA.info about the speaking schedule and how to volunteer
Geri Kuhn: That would be great Cat!
Solomon Cortes: And for your hard work on these projects for the group.
navets Potato: good idea
Solomon Cortes: Which takes us nicely to our next agenda item: the website.
Solomon Cortes: I was delighted to inform you last month about our new look website, which has already received a number of positive comments in the forums. Well, Cat has continued to work on the functionality of the site and I'm really excited to be able to tell you that we have set up a social network capability, using the Ning platform, on which all our members can upload profiles and share news and information about what their interests and work.
Ashcroft Burnham: :-D
Solomon Cortes: his new part of the site is intended to complement our existing forum, but give people much greater ability to create detailed profiles, with a very user-friendly platform.
Solomon Cortes: Sorry - not *his - "This"...
Benjamin Noble: The site looks fantastic -- big thanks to Cat for the redesign and new functions. It is infinitely more professional than the placeholder that we had there.
Julynn Lilliehook: RL or SL profiles or both?
Solomon Cortes: Anything you wish to put there, that will be of interest to the community
Solomon Cortes: I see this new part of the site as a great tool to help our members continue to develop their relationships with like-minded individuals round the world, and build useful professional and social networks. I really commend this new SL BA service to you, and hope that you will use it.
Solomon Cortes: I do hope that you will all be as excited as I am about joining in and using and playing a part in building this great networking resource for all of us. Cat, once again, a huge thank you for your work on implementing this project. Everyone, you can find a link to the network on our website homepage at www.slba.info, or locate it directly at http://slbarassn.ning.com/. Please bookmark it and enjoy using the service!
Lincoln Beck: great work Cat!
You: thank you
Solomon Cortes: Thank you Cat.
Solomon Cortes: In our last ten minutes, there were two other topics I wanted to discuss.
Julynn Lilliehook: Question please
Solomon Cortes: Go ahead Julynn
Julynn Lilliehook: Do we use our forum lgin or create a new login?
You: it will need to be a NING log-in, unfortunately
Julynn Lilliehook: fine..thank you
You: so, new log-in
Benjamin Noble: But you may have a NING login for another site. I did, it turned out.
You: if you already use NING,.... what he said
Jimby Pomegranate: I love Ning. All hail Marc Andreessen.
Ashcroft Burnham hails Marc Andreessen, whoever he is...
Jimby Pomegranate: Founder of Ning, and inventor of the graphical Web browser! :)
Solomon Cortes: Thanks Julynn, thanks Cat.
You: the NING was Solomon's idea, i just set up the link really
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh. That's a good reason to hail him, then :-)
Solomon Cortes: To keep to time (I hope), I'd like to move on....
Solomon Cortes: But thank you for the hailing. I'll accept joint hailing with Cat!
Solomon Cortes: Anyway....
Solomon Cortes: Last two topics: announcements, and elections.
Solomon Cortes: first - announcements:
Solomon Cortes: This is such a great group and I feel we have a great deal to offer to the community. But - without overdoing it - I thinnk we could do more to get our message across.
Solomon Cortes: I haven't really formed a specific plan, but I'd appreciate getting people's views.
Solomon Cortes: For example, when we are ready to formally launch our seminars and our credentialling service, I think we should do more to announce them than sending in-world messages to our members.
Solomon Cortes: I think we should let the wider community know what we are doing.
Ashcroft Burnham suggests not using ad farms...
Lincoln Beck smiles
Julynn Lilliehook: Metanomics
Solomon Cortes: I feel we should reach out to some of the sector journalists, legal press, and bloggers, as well as other in-world legal groups.
Solomon Cortes: What does everyone think? Does this make sense to you, as well?
Jimby Pomegranate: LawProfs blog network
Julynn Lilliehook: SL'ang Life Magazine is neat..it comes to your RL mailbox
Julynn Lilliehook: I did a presentation last weekend...they are very open to ideas for stories
You: i can spread it among interested law librarians who may pass it along to their lawyers
Lincoln Beck: I can talk with Slang Life I use to write for them
Julynn Lilliehook: But what is the message you want conveyed?
You: and contact the Cal. Lawyer magazine perhaps
Julynn Lilliehook: Ben..perhaps the ABA Journal is ready for another article?
Julynn Lilliehook: We could have an event of some sort here....
Benjamin Noble: Very possibly. The Science and Technology Section magazine might run somethig too.
Julynn Lilliehook: Invite some important ppl
Solomon Cortes: Well, we can work on specific messages and tailor them to the event / news we think is worth announcing. But I think the overall message that we want people to pick up is that we're the leading virtual world's legal focused association, forward thinking, inclusive, dyanmic. Oh, and that they should think about joining. That sort of thing.
Julynn Lilliehook: Hey...what about SLCN.TV? We can see if they want to do a show on us....
Julynn Lilliehook: I wanted to do a weekly show, but it didn;t pan out.
Julynn Lilliehook: Or...and I am not joking here...we can sponsor a snail in the Giant Snail Races on SLCN.TV
You: awesome!!
Jimby Pomegranate: I like snails
Julynn Lilliehook: There are alos auto races inSL
Solomon Cortes: I haven't had a chance to discuss this iwth Henri, our VP of communications yet (he's quite busy preparing for RL exams, or taking them). I'd be interested to know if there are one or two people here who might be willing to assist Henri - assuming he's in favour - with thinking through what we could do in a bit more detail, working up a list of potential contacts, and then helping with the occasional 'press release'?
navets Potato: I'm afrand to ask, wht do snails and teh SLBA have to do with each other?
Julynn Lilliehook: I would be willing to head up a promotions committee.
Julynn Lilliehook: It's just a popular show on SLCN.TV
Jimby Pomegranate: I would be happy to help; my exams are finished as of yesterday.
Ashcroft Burnham: Best wishes for those, Jimby :-)
Solomon Cortes: Thank you Julynn. Let's pick this up offline, with anyone else who is interested, follow up with Henri and try and co-ordinate an action plan.
Solomon Cortes: Thanks Jimby. Same as above. Hop your exames went well.
Jimby Pomegranate: TY! :)
Solomon Cortes: Umm...that should be "Hope your exams went well".
Solomon Cortes: OK - home straight.
Solomon Cortes: We have elections coming up in July.
Solomon Cortes: I hope lots of people will be interested in standing and that everyone will turn out to vote.
Solomon Cortes: Ben, as our honorary returning officer, would you say a few words on the roles that are coming up for re-election, and the process and timings, please?
Benjamin Noble: Sure, Solomon.
Benjamin Noble: I echo you that I hope a lot of people stand for office, and everyone votes. The quality of the administration makes a huge difference to the organization's future.
Benjamin Noble: Elections take place at the end of July. We elect all positions in July, though the President's term continues through the end of January (there is intentional overlap on that position so that the president can get up to speed).
Benjamin Noble: It's critically important that the organization get good, committed officers in these positions. Please consider running. There are some real benefits to you -- chiefly, the press fairly regularly profiles and interviews SLBA officers, which gets word out about your interest in practicing "virtual law." And get to help shape the future of the organization.
Benjamin Noble: Here's what happens. Incidentally, this all comes from our bylaws, which the group discussed and voted for last year. You can find them here: http://www.slba.info/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1182477670
Benjamin Noble: We elect one "President Elect," who will take over at the end of Solomon's term in January.
Benjamin Noble: We also elect two Vice Presidents (one for finance, and one for communications).
Benjamin Noble: And we elect three members to the "Executive Board," which sets agendas for meetings, and helps the Officers with various projects.
Benjamin Noble: All of the positions except for the President are open to all members. There are some specific requirements for the president, though. The President must "(a) be a lawyer qualified to practice law, conduct litigation, act as advocate, and/or give legal advice, in at least one first-life jurisdiction, in accordance with the laws and rules of professional conduct (if any) of that jurisdiction and (b) make his or her "first life" name and bar memberships publicly available."
Benjamin Noble: There's a bit of time, so right now, please start thinking about roles you might want to run for though.
Benjamin Noble: The committment runs around 10 hours a month, I'd say. More or less depending on what you want to make of the role.
Benjamin Noble: If there are any questions, I'm sure any officer would be happy to talk to you (or you can post in the forums).
Solomon Cortes: Thanks very much Ben.
Solomon Cortes: Well, we're about due to wrap up. Thanks everyone for staying the course and contributing so effectively and constructively.
Solomon Cortes: Before we close, is there any other business?
Julynn Lilliehook: Dowe have t-shirts?
Ashcroft Burnham: Do we have SLBA cake?
Ashcroft Burnham thinks that tea and cake should be mandatory after every meeting.
Lincoln Beck: lol
Jimby Pomegranate: I like cake
Ashcroft Burnham: :-D
Ashcroft Burnham: Jimby - want to join the Metaverse Republic? :-) We have cake at meetings there ;-)
Mick Stenvaag: Are there less formal explority meetings planned for issues?
Jimby Pomegranate: OK!
navets Potato: I think we should sell t-shirts and mugs and other stuff like that on the slba site
Benjamin Noble: I like that idea.
Solomon Cortes: I agree. Let's make sure we do that one of these meetings. In any event, anyone who would like to stay and chat after - with or without tea /cake etc - is welcome.
Julynn Lilliehook: Do we have a tag line?
Solomon Cortes: Hey we do have cake!
Solomon Cortes: If there's no other business.....
Benjamin Noble: I actually do have a tray of SLBA donuts and an espresso machine.
Julynn Lilliehook: Like BEEF- It's what's for dinner?
Slice of cake whispers: Yummmm, Chocolate!!
Julynn Lilliehook: I can make the t-shirts
Solomon Cortes: Then this is to thank you all for your attendance and to propose we call the meeting closed.
Benjamin Noble: Second.
Julynn Lilliehook: Aye
Solomon Cortes: Thaks everyone.
Solomon Cortes: Now, who's for cake!?

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Created on ... April 13, 2008