Second Life Bar Association Meeting TranscriptApril 11, 2009
Transcript taken by Cat Galileo
[10:00] Legal Writer: Hello, everyone.[10:01] Legal Writer: Thank you for coming to our meeting.
[10:01] Legal Writer: I hope everyone is having a wonderful Spring Break/Easter/Passover holiday.
[10:01] Quillen McClure: Thank you Legal
[10:01] Morgandy Monigal: and it's a weekend
[10:02] Legal Writer: Before beginning this meeting, I want to remind everyone that a transcript of this meeting will be posted on the SLBA website after the meeting.
[10:02] Legal Writer: We have posted the agenda for people to see. If you don't have it handy, Cat Gallileo can give you a copy.
[10:03] Legal Writer: The first order of business is to report on the joint reception with the American Bar Association Section of Intellectual Property Law.
[10:03] Legal Writer: Our association co-sponsored the reception, along with the ABA Section of Science & Technology Law.
[10:03] Legal Writer: I was there. It was a lot of fun.
[10:04] Legal Writer: Would folks like to speak now and mention whether you thought it was fun? Useful networking? A success?
[10:04] Aisln Baxton: it was fun..good music..good contacts
[10:04] Morgandy Monigal: I thought it was a great informal meeting, and of course, the music was good.
[10:04] Cat Galileo: it was nice, i had a little trouble hearing (I was at work and don't ahve adequate sound card there.)
[10:04] Cat Galileo: but the text chat was good
[10:05] Legal Writer: I was not able to hear any sound or speak either.
[10:05] Legal Writer: Was there a specific issue with that?
[10:05] Cat Galileo: i assume3d it was just me, since my work computer is underpowered.
[10:05] Cat Galileo: no one else mentioned it
[10:05] Morgandy Monigal: My version always has speak issues, but the stream seemed fine
[10:05] Legal Writer: Mine is usually fine on the sound, but I couldn't speak for some reasons.
[10:06] Legal Writer: And I don't recall hearing anything except for a few random noises. No voice.
[10:06] Legal Writer: In general, did people become friends with those from the ABA?
[10:06] Cat Galileo: I had 1 comment that they didn't care for the music... tastes vary
[10:07] Morgandy Monigal: I couldn't really tell who was there form the ABA, but I did have to duck out early.
[10:07] Aisln Baxton: I ordered the book and became more aware of the ABA as an organization and what it offers
[10:07] Legal Writer: Are you speaking of Ben Duranske's book?
[10:07] Cat Galileo: i met a few. i thought it was nice. I also left after about 1.25 hours
[10:07] Aisln Baxton: yes
[10:07] Legal Writer: Great.
[10:08] Legal Writer: OK, in general, I hope that we can have a tighter association with those two sections -- and also get some new members via publicity with those sections.
[10:08] Cat Galileo: i thought it looked like there was interest in informal meetings in between general meetings
[10:08] Legal Writer: Is there anyone here who is a member of the IP Law Section committee on virtual worlds?
[10:08] Aviator Kidd: i am
[10:09] Aviator Kidd: This is Ross Dannenberg, I am the chair of that committee
[10:09] Cat Galileo: here are a couple pics btw. if anyoine has more, send em along
[10:09] Cat Galileo: Hi Ross
[10:09] Legal Writer: Great, Aviator.
[10:09] Legal Writer: Thank you for coming.
[10:09] Aviator Kidd: We will be publishing a second book on virtual world law later this year, concentrating on the IP aspects
[10:09] Legal Writer: Can I ask if we can speak of ways, perhaps off line, concerning publicity for this association?
[10:09] raphaella Nightfire: nods
[10:10] Legal Writer: We would like to have more members from the committee.
[10:10] Aviator Kidd: sure thing
[10:10] Legal Writer: Thanks.
[10:10] simple texture display: New Picture:
[10:10] raphaella Nightfire: may i say quickly.. i have been asked to do a story on thre assoc.. and also onl legal education in sl.. by Best of Sl Magazine and also for CNN
[10:10] raphaella Nightfire: so i would love to tlk to someone about those things
[10:11] Legal Writer: And also I will make the same outreach to Benjamin Noble - who is one of the chairs of the ABA Section of Science & Technology Law's committee on virtual worlds.
[10:11] Cat Galileo: did you twitter about that Raphaella? I've been meaning to get back to someone who tweeted
[10:11] Legal Writer: Thank you, raphaella. I am sure you can speak with our members here to get some info on your publication.
[10:11] raphaella Nightfire: yes :))
[10:11] Aviator Kidd: Raphaella, I am free to chat anytime.
[10:11] Legal Writer: Great,
[10:12] Legal Writer: OK, are there other comments on the reception?
[10:12] raphaella Nightfire: great!.. thank aviator.. i write for a few mags here and have some media contacts.. i am happy to engage them if helpful on other matters
[10:12] raphaella Nightfire: :))
[10:12] Legal Writer: Aviator, thank you to your committee for putting on such a great program. It was terrific.
[10:12] Jai Baxter: Fun, and interesting ,suic, and I wonder if next time there'd be an advantage to a brief setpiece moment in realtime when the two sides introduced themselevs to the other.
[10:13] Cat Galileo: that's a good point. since I didn't have sound I figured I was missing that
[10:13] Legal Writer: OK, that's a good thought. Can we think about perhaps a joint meeting in world?
[10:13] Jai Baxter: Didn;t notice one, anyway, Cat. Good point Legalm, after all the ABA groups have regular meetigns
[10:13] Legal Writer: Something other than a party, where the purpose is to start some collaboration.
[10:13] Morgandy Monigal: The great thing about that is that you don't have to wait till a regulat ABA meeting.
[10:14] Jai Baxter: Doed SCitech still show up at the ABA annual? (Unlike the IP section?)
[10:14] Legal Writer: Yes, it does.
[10:14] Legal Writer: I will be at the ABA Annual Meeting in Chicago this summer.
[10:14] Cat Galileo: hi Ashcroft
[10:14] Morgandy Monigal: SciTech is calling for content for the next meeting now
[10:14] Ashcroft Burnham: Hello :-)
[10:14] Jai Baxter: because a little colocated event at the Anuual at August woudl give yuo a lot of walkin posisbilities on the ABA side
[10:14] Ashcroft Burnham: Nice venue :-)
[10:14] Aviator Kidd: HEY! IP section shows up to Annual meeting now!
[10:14] Legal Writer: Would be delighted to meet with anyone in Chicago.
[10:14] Cat Galileo: :-)
[10:14] Cat Galileo: a tad laggy.
[10:14] Aviator Kidd: I will be at annual meeting in chicago as well
[10:14] Jai Baxter: oh? Yay :) Glad to hear their separatisr urges quelled :D
[10:15] Jai Baxter: anyway, what about a tenatative target for an august session
[10:15] Aviator Kidd: yeah, we rejoined two years ago
[10:15] Legal Writer: Great. Perhaps we can set a time to meet in Chicago.
[10:15] Jai Baxter: on the ABA side could be an introfor them to virtual worldsm probably with CLE credit
[10:15] Legal Writer: In terms of Annual Meeting programs, the Sections set the CLE sessions for Annual Meeting in January.
[10:15] Jai Baxter: :D God I know
[10:16] Legal Writer: So, perhaps the best bet is for us to speak about a joint program for San Francisco in 2010.
[10:16] Aviator Kidd: We've done that three times over, Jai. We can try, but that topic is actually getting old in ABA circles... but perhaps it has not been effectively advertised.
[10:16] Cat Galileo: we can do an informal off conference one
[10:16] Jai Baxter: so a reception :D piggyback on some late afternoon thing that already exists
[10:16] Cat Galileo: in-world - dunno if ABA folks do that, AALL sections do
[10:16] Cat Galileo: (Law library)
[10:17] Jai Baxter: hmmm Aviator? Not suggesting a general program, suggesting a "visit" :) not so much ben's book topic, as "meet the SL people"
[10:17] Jai Baxter: anyway worth some though
[10:17] Jai Baxter: another angle
[10:17] Jai Baxter: pick a meeting
[10:17] Legal Writer: OK, are there folks who want to talk with Aviator off line about annual meeting?
[10:17] Jai Baxter: and set up an SL bruidge - sorta liek a phone bridge
[10:17] Jai Baxter grins, raises hand
[10:17] Ashcroft Burnham: A hump-backed bridge?
[10:17] Legal Writer: By the way, I had thought of having a "shadow" Annual Meeting during the ABA Annual Meeting -- for our association.
[10:17] Morgandy Monigal: If it's for SF 2010, I'm in.
[10:18] Jai Baxter smiles
[10:18] Legal Writer: Not sure if anyone has time for that, but it's another thought.
[10:18] Aviator Kidd: Let's talk offline then. Sounds good.
[10:18] Legal Writer: When I did some reasearch on other bar associations last month, there are some out there that have "shadow" meetings during the ABA Annual Meeting, since people are in town for it anyway.
[10:19] Legal Writer: Any thoughts on that?
[10:19] Jai Baxter: maybe offline or on the web hub?
[10:19] Morgandy Monigal: what goes on in a shadow meeting? rl getting together?
[10:19] Legal Writer: Yes
[10:19] Cat Galileo: my thought is being virtual and all, we don't care if people are in town :) but the timing might be fortuiutous
[10:19] Cat Galileo: sp.
[10:20] Legal Writer: We could do ours in world.
[10:20] Aviator Kidd: You won't get participants from the actual ABA meeting, but I suspect that is the point?
[10:20] Legal Writer: And if people are there physically, then we can all have coffee or whatever.
[10:20] Ashcroft Burnham: What, if any, provision is being made for the non-American members...?
[10:21] raphaella Nightfire: <<is Aussie so is interested in that
[10:21] Legal Writer: I will be participating in the actual ABA Meeting, but can take some time out for the meeting, if we have it then.
[10:21] Jai Baxter: Aviatorm, you will if there's a locus there :) could just be a booth/video observing point
[10:21] Aviator Kidd: Well that's true. I guess I am confused by what content a "shadow" meeting would have then.
[10:21] Legal Writer: We could have an inworld portion of it, so that people anywhere in the world can join.
[10:21] Ashcroft Burnham: Good idea :-)
[10:22] Legal Writer: People do what we are doing now in these meetings. Catching up and moving forward the business of the association.
[10:22] Cat Galileo: action item for Jai and Aviator to set it up ? :D
[10:22] Legal Writer: OK, well let's do that. We should move on to premises.
[10:22] Jai Baxter: or come back with suggestions anyway :)
[10:22] Aviator Kidd: Let me know what I can do to help. I can send notices to my committee about it, too (200+ members)
[10:23] Legal Writer: During our IP Law Section reception, I had an informal discussion with Rose Springvale -- who is here with us now!
[10:23] Jai Baxter: good morning Rose :)
[10:23] Rose Springvale waves
[10:23] Legal Writer: About the possibility of finding a permanent home for us.
[10:23] Deco Straaf: International lawyers will also want to hear about the meetings, including myself
[10:23] Cat Galileo: note for arrivals, this transcript will be posted on public portion of website. FYI
[10:23] Legal Writer: Rose, can you perhaps take a few seconds to talk about that possibility to our members -- what the location involves.
[10:24] Legal Writer: What it's like?
[10:24] Ashcroft Burnham rather likes this location...
[10:24] Rose Springvale: lol sure Legal.. not really dressed for presen tations today, but i'll wing it
[10:24] Legal Writer: No worries. And I don't mean to put you on the spot.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: shall i stand or am i okay here, you are all not quite rezzed for me
[10:24] Legal Writer: OK right there.
[10:24] Jai Baxter: :D but we want the wardrobe new later too
[10:24] Cat Galileo: this location is nice but doesn't give room for permanent office... i have a little display in my library next door, where the credentialling box is
[10:24] Rose Springvale: great
[10:25] Rose Springvale: As I explained to Legal, i represent the Confederation of democatic sims, many of you here are familiar with the project
[10:25] Rose Springvale: We have private land and a lot of public space, that is all at the disposal of people who own land in the sims
[10:26] Rose Springvale: including an Amphitheater that seats 85, and smaller spaces... a courtroom in fact designed in a prior life by Mr burnham
[10:26] Ashcroft Burnham: The building was Moon Adamant's work.
[10:26] Rose Springvale: The theme of the most appropriate sim for the SLBA is Roman.
[10:26] Rose Springvale: You are all invited to come see it..
[10:27] Rose Springvale: What i thought was that the association could own an office space there to accomodate its day to day needs
[10:27] Legal Writer: And so we could have a permanent place with a sign and desk?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: and then use public space for big meetings like these, and thus not have to pay tier for space used once a month
[10:27] Jai Baxter: slcbjcbjelf
[10:27] Ashcroft Burnham agrees with Jai.
[10:27] Legal Writer: And a place to put notices and payment boxes and the like?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: hm, that language isn' ton my translator
[10:28] Ashcroft Burnham: (Or rather, Jai's cat).
[10:28] Legal Writer: Right, so we would pay something for just the office, but not the auditorium or courtroom, right?
[10:28] Rose Springvale: Legal, yes, space that the association would "Own" they could do that with yes. We have at least two good options for the association. No purchase price would be involved, we'd just ask that tier be paid on the owned parcel... which i'd guess to be about 15 usd per month
[10:29] Ashcroft Burnham: Would the poor sap who rented the space end up being dragged into the bottomless pit of CDS politics, I wonder?
[10:29] Rose Springvale: you'd have accesss to the public space even if you owned a parcel with tier for a 1. 50 per month
[10:29] Rose Springvale: CDS politics are there for the taking if they wish, but certainly not required ash.
[10:29] Rose Springvale: The castle where we held the Christmas party is also public CDS space
[10:29] Jai Baxter smiles
[10:29] Legal Writer: One of the issues we had with the former space was that when the building owner decided to stop paying, we needed to move out.
[10:30] Rose Springvale: yes, and that's the beauty of the democracy legal
[10:30] Rose Springvale: its been here for 5 years
[10:30] Legal Writer: With the Confederation, is there more permanence to it?
[10:30] raphaella Nightfire: How much prim is needed by the association for premises?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: owned by the community not an individual
[10:30] Rose Springvale: so i imagine it will be there long after we've all retired from sl
[10:30] Cat Galileo: who actually is the owner for Linden Lab purposes?
[10:30] Legal Writer: And the membership changes, right? So that if one person had to drop out, the Confederation can continue? -- owning the land.
[10:31] Legal Writer: And is the Confederation the owner, as Cat asks?
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:31] Rose Springvale: yes, we woudl do that with group ownership Legal. CAt, there is a nominal avatar who is Estate Owner
[10:31] Rose Springvale: Rudeen Edo, and she is "controlled" by the government
[10:32] Rose Springvale: which is in turn controlled by the community
[10:32] Legal Writer: Is she a real av?
[10:32] Cat Galileo: ok...
[10:32] Legal Writer: Or just an account set up by the Confederation?
[10:32] Ashcroft Burnham: Isn't Sudane the owner?
[10:32] Rose Springvale: Sudane Erato, who you know from SLNE, is the "owner" of the avatar, but there is back up within ghe CDS to cover if she fails or is unable to act
[10:32] Jamie Palisades smiles. The real government in which Rose and I are part of the fifth or sixth elected executive. :) But credit to SLBA member Soro Dagnostino for suggesting the idea.
[10:33] Rose Springvale: Yes, Jamie is the Exec of CDS now, and Soro runs the Representateive Assembly
[10:33] Rose Springvale: :)
[10:33] Legal Writer: OK, so if Rudeen is disabled for some reason, someone else can continue running and paying the Lindens, right?
[10:33] Aviator Kidd: Gotta run folks. IM me offline if you want to chat.
[10:33] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:33] TelLagu Swords: Question: Is this a topic for the full membership, or for the executive board?
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: And Rose does every thing else.
[10:33] Legal Writer: Thanks, Aviator?
[10:33] Rose Springvale: lol no Soro!
[10:33] Jamie Palisades: Hah god knows she does
[10:34] Rose Springvale: Please come by and look around, its a good sim and i think a great option to keep SLBA costs down
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: I move the matter be referred to excom
[10:34] Rose Springvale: I"ll host an open house if you'd like to look
[10:34] Legal Writer: OK, Geri Kuhn will be following up with Rose.
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Rose, I wonder if what CDS needs to do is write something up for SLBA.
[10:34] Legal Writer: Thank you for your presentation, Rose.
[10:34] Rose Springvale: great :)
[10:34] Legal Writer: It was very informative.
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: :)
[10:35] Rose Springvale: I'll chat with Geri and we'll do what the excom wishes :)
[10:35] Legal Writer: And we appreciate the offer. It helps us out in this time of transition.
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: :)
[10:35] Legal Writer: OK, let's move on to incorporation.
[10:35] Legal Writer: The Executive Board has reviewed draft articles of incorporation.
[10:35] Legal Writer: We also have a conflict of interest policy approved by the Exec Board.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades smiles. Actually, strangely I do have something to say about that which is CDS-related. Is this an OK time for member comments on incorporation?
[10:36] Legal Writer: I am prepared to file the articles to actually incorporate the association as a California nonprofit.
[10:36] Legal Writer: Sure, Jamie.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: I have a concern to share - though as a California resident it;s not really mine personally.
[10:36] Legal Writer: Please, go ahead.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: Over in CDS we have long debated incorporating
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: tere are obvious continuity advantages
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: but
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: one thing that we encounter, I want to share here
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: *sigh* We have at any given time a significant number of stakeholders who are not North American
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: and on some level
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: they look at a structure manifestly under US law
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: and -probably with reason - winder some things\
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: *wonder, sorry
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: like
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: - can i just as easily be on the board or controlling group of such a thing?
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: - am I or the group subjecting ourselves to US law?
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: in ways I might not like
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: e.g., Europeans who rather like the EU Privacy directive
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: (=utterly missing in the US, god knows)
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: and I could give other examples
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: but
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: anyway
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: by way of report
[10:39] Legal Writer: It's a good question, Jamie.
[10:39] Legal Writer: My feeling is that there needs to be a balancing.
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: we have over in CDS for almost 5 years now thoughfully, not accidebntally, *avoided* utterly committing ourselves to a US legal structure
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: might yet change :) but not without serious attention to the needed of global members
[10:39] Legal Writer: If we incorporate in a US jurisdiction, we do subject ourselves to US law.
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: so just wante dto pass that along as a cautionary note.
[10:40] Soro Dagostino: That depends.
[10:40] Legal Writer: I understand, thank you for the question.
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: thx :)
[10:40] Legal Writer: I think a balancing must occur.
[10:40] Soro Dagostino: Comment Mr. Chair.
[10:40] Legal Writer: It may be that an organization that holds itself out as a bar association is already subjecting itself to US law -- without the limited liability of a corporation.
[10:41] Legal Writer: Soro, you had a comment?
[10:41] Soro Dagostino: Yes, the group is a non-profit.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: +1 to what Legal just said
[10:41] raphaella Nightfire: but which bar?
[10:41] Soro Dagostino: Many international groups incorporate on the Isle of Man
[10:42] Soro Dagostino: Fairly open structure.
[10:42] raphaella Nightfire: in many ways we deal with internaional law anmd conventions surely?
[10:42] Ashcroft Burnham doesn't like the EU Privacy Directive.
[10:42] Legal Writer: There was another practical concern addressed by incorporation in California.
[10:42] Soro Dagostino: Cures the "American Law" issue.
[10:42] Legal Writer: -- I am willing to do the incorporation work for free.
[10:42] Cat Galileo: i believe our main reason for choosing CA was that the person doing the drafting for us (at no charge, btw, and thank you) is in CA
[10:43] Cat Galileo: what Legal said. :)
[10:43] Rose Springvale: and are we pursuing 501design ation?
[10:43] Rose Springvale: or jsut corp?
[10:43] Legal Writer: 501 designation to follow!
[10:43] Legal Writer: Yes!
[10:43] Rose Springvale: and legal, are you doing that gratis too?
[10:43] Rose Springvale: there is a 300 USD filing fee for that
[10:43] Legal Writer: Yes. Although the Exec Board members are going to help fill out the paperwork to share the load.
[10:43] Rose Springvale: minimum
[10:44] Cat Galileo: the assn has a budget. small budget, but should cover that.
[10:44] Legal Writer: I think there appropriate sponsorships (e.g., my law firm), we can get the money we need for filing fees.
[10:44] Cat Galileo: i don't know about ongoing fees though, are there annual fees of $300?
[10:44] Rose Springvale: i can help with that, i do these for arts organizations in houston, have it pretty much mechanized
[10:44] Rose Springvale: no
[10:44] Rose Springvale: annual is nominal, dependent on income
[10:45] Cat Galileo: that's what i thought.
[10:45] Legal Writer: Cool. So here is the path forward with incorporation.
[10:45] Ashcroft Burnham likes the Isle of Man idea.
[10:45] Legal Writer: Unless I hear that the membership is dead set against Cal. incorporation, I propose that we file articles of incorporation in California.
[10:45] Solomon Cortes: For what it's worth, my views (as a European) are that we should incorporate, we need to incorporate somewhere, and given the association's close ties to the US (and I expect, majority US membership) and that Legal has set this up without charge to the association, we should proceed.
[10:46] TelLagu Swords: Agrees.
[10:46] Soro Dagostino: I do not disagree.
[10:46] Aisln Baxton: agreed
[10:46] Legal Writer: Solonon, are you willing to make that a motion?
[10:46] raphaella Nightfire: i guess the main question i have would be inpact on those from other jurisdictions
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: hm hm hm did I hear my distinmsguihed colleague Soro right that if SLBA is a nonprofir Calif corp it is rthought that this does NOT subject the group operations to more acute California bar reach? (smile) Ash honestly I;d be more worried about the local variations in regulation and prosecution of practicing law crossjurisdictionally, and 'advertising;', than the privacy directive :) (which I admit I liek though)
[10:46] Solomon Cortes: (That's not to say that I don't sometimes like the idea of being protected under EU privacy laws when dealing with EU organizations!)
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: so what's that motion?
[10:47] Morgandy Monigal: I move that the SLBA incorporate in Califonia.
[10:47] TelLagu Swords: second
[10:47] Legal Writer: By the way, we dont collect a whole lot of personally identifiable information.
[10:47] Legal Writer: OK, discussion of the motion?
[10:48] Morgandy Monigal: and we can agree not to disclose it without an EU directive
[10:48] Cat Galileo: credentialling does
[10:48] Sam4 Courtois: of information
[10:48] Legal Writer: We can have a privacy policy that addresses privacy concerns.
[10:48] Legal Writer: We do collect some information upon credentialing.
[10:48] Legal Writer: But credentialing is optional.
[10:48] Legal Writer: Discussion of the motion?
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: Move the question
[10:49] raphaella Nightfire: so once incorporated under california US law.. are there impacts on other jusrisdictions?
[10:49] Jamie Palisades smiles
[10:49] Legal Writer: I am guessing there will be little impact on members in other jurisdictions who are simply members of an association here.
[10:50] raphaella Nightfire: it seems.. parochial.. but then i'm not from US
[10:50] Jamie Palisades: -objectm sorry can we consider amentmnes first?
[10:50] Jamie Palisades: amendments
[10:50] Jamie Palisades: :)
[10:50] Jamie Palisades: starngley enough I have one in mind
[10:50] Legal Writer: As someone mentioned earlier, the trouble may come from people practicing outside their jurisdictions, which is a separate issue.
[10:50] Morgandy Monigal: What is your proposed amendment?
[10:50] Legal Writer: Amendments -- please let us know what you have in mind.
[10:51] Legal Writer: Jamie?
[10:51] Jamie Palisades: I sugfgest we amend this to have no action taken to move assets or control into a US corporation (or any other) until 30 days after the posting to the website of a report from exec board describing expected effects on out-of-jurisdiction members :)
[10:51] Jamie Palisades: note
[10:51] Jamie Palisades: leave it to exec board
[10:51] Ashcroft Burnham: I second that.
[10:51] Jamie Palisades: but let;'s tell the members whether we think
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: tyhat it goes their ox :). Thanks Ash
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: *gores
10:52] Jamie Palisades: *gores
[10:52] Sam4 Courtois: point of information?
[10:52] Legal Writer: Please.
[10:52] Legal Writer: Go ahead.
[10:52] Sam4 Courtois: Is there an issue if members of the non-profit are not lawyers?
[10:53] Sam4 Courtois: we hold ourselves out to be a bar association
[10:53] Cat Galileo: as a note, we have more on the agenda.
[10:53] Legal Writer: I don't believe so. FYI, the American Bar Association has a large contingent of non-lawyer members.
[10:53] Sam4 Courtois: thank you
[10:53] Cat Galileo: we have the name bar assn but we explicitly say it is for laweyrs and other interested ersidents
[10:53] Legal Writer: OK, let's call the amendment question first.
[10:53] Soro Dagostino: Move the question
[10:53] TelLagu Swords: California volunter bar associations do, in some cases, allow for non-attorney associate members.
[10:54] Legal Writer: The amendment states that the Exec Board should not move forward with the incorporation until studying the issue of the effect on non-US members -- 30 days notice period.
[10:54] Ashcroft Burnham: Should those who happen to be from different jurisdictions have a different membership status?
[10:54] Legal Writer: All those in favor say aye.
[10:54] Sam4 Courtois: aye
[10:54] raphaella Nightfire: aye
[10:54] Lincoln Beck: aye
[10:54] Soro Dagostino: aye
[10:54] Rose Springvale: aye
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: aye
[10:54] Ashcroft Burnham: Are we voting on the amendment, or the principal motion?
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: amendment
[10:54] Legal Writer: The amendment.
[10:54] TelLagu Swords: aye
[10:54] Ashcroft Burnham: Aye.
[10:54] Cat Galileo: aye
[10:54] raphaella Nightfire: aye to the amendment
[10:55] Legal Writer: All those opposed?
[10:55] Morgandy Monigal: abstain, I think the exec has enough to do.
[10:55] Geri Kuhn: abstain
[10:55] Aisln Baxton: abstain
[10:56] Legal Writer: My personal belief is that this amendment will slow down our incorporation. And I just don't see a large impact on non-US members.
[10:56] Morgandy Monigal: your asking them to give a legal opinion of the effecst on an unknown set of jrisdictions
[10:56] Legal Writer: But this is up to you -- as the members.
[10:56] Morgandy Monigal: I change my vote to no
[10:57] raphaella Nightfire: i am happy to undertake my own research in relation to impact if any on Oz
[10:57] Rose Springvale: if we are going to play in rl law, we need to have information folks
[10:57] Legal Writer: OK, well, the vote is 10-1 in favor of the amendment.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: when we incorporate and file with the IRS< its rl law
[10:58] Legal Writer: In light of that, I suggest that we not move forward with the main motion unless and until people are satisfied with the notion that incorporation in the US won't have an adverse effect on foreign lawyers.
[10:58] Morgandy Monigal: I move to table the main motion.
[10:58] Legal Writer: So I move to table the main motion -- moving forward with the incorporation.
[10:58] Legal Writer: Second.
[10:58] Legal Writer: All those in favor say aye.
[10:58] Soro Dagostino: Second.
[10:58] TelLagu Swords: aye to table
[10:59] Morgandy Monigal: aye
[10:59] Jai Baxter: hm - may I suggest that during the 30 day period we call for members to provide their views to the exec board on how -- if it all -- incorporating in the US would matter to them? I;m confident that the SLBA Board will respond to feedback appropriately - as I sit her, no idea if we'll get any or not though :D
[10:59] Soro Dagostino: aye
[10:59] Jai Baxter: oops :)
[10:59] Aisln Baxton: aye
[10:59] Jamie Palisades: aye
[10:59] Jai Baxter: eh, abstain on this one
[10:59] Ashcroft Burnham abstains.
[10:59] raphaella Nightfire: abstain also,,,
[10:59] Cat Galileo: that's fine with me Jai, from experience, I'd say we get -0- comments, but nothing wrong with giving the opporutnity.
[10:59] Rose Springvale: aye to table pending research
[10:59] Jai Baxter: (might suggest somethign when vote done)
[11:00] Legal Writer: Yes, I think to be fair to the Exec Board, people should provide input if they think they will be adversely affected by incorporation in the US. It's impossible to know the law in all jurisdictions in which we have members.
[11:00] Legal Writer: Also, if we hear from no one, that will be noted in the report.
[11:00] Legal Writer: Any opposed to tabling incorporation?
[11:00] Legal Writer: OK, motion carries.
At this point the Tabula Rasa region was taken down and restarted. The meeting picked up a few minutes later when the region became available again.
[11:08] Legal Writer: OK, I hope not too many people bailed bacause of our little server issue.
[11:09] Cat Galileo: we're about out of time anyway.
[11:09] Sam4 Courtois: Mr. president, in light of the motion to table, may I suggest that we revisit the amendment to shorten the time for membership review so that we might resolve this issue at the next meeting
[11:10] Legal Writer: Yes, we are. I think the way we are leaving the incorporation issue is that people need to speak up before the next meeting if they have concerns under their own jurisdiction's laws concerning becoming a member of a US bar association.
[11:10] Sam4 Courtois: Thank you
[11:10] Cat Galileo: I'll publicize that in all the usual places (inworld and forums and ning)
[11:10] Legal Writer: I don't think we should wait until the next meeting to continue this discussion.
[11:10] Cat Galileo: and web page
[11:11] Cat Galileo: and make one post for discussion on forum.
[11:11] Legal Writer: We need to hear from people, or else we will move forward. Under the approved amendment, the Exec Board will gather all comments and post a report on the website.
[11:11] Cat Galileo: final date for comments?
[11:11] Legal Writer: And I think we need to make it clear, Cat, "speak now or forever hold your peace."
[11:11] Cat Galileo: indeed.
[11:11] Legal Writer: How about a week before the next meeting.
[11:11] raphaella Nightfire: fair enough
[11:11] Cat Galileo: May 2
[11:12] Legal Writer: OK, that should give people some time.
[11:12] Legal Writer: Let me emphasize that I see the privacy issue as something that can be handled via a privacy policy.
[11:12] Legal Writer: We won't collect much personally identifiable information, unless you want credentialing, and then, credentialing is optional.
[11:13] Cat Galileo: ok, I will post a summary of this discussion, link to transript, and deadline to comment, and put out an announcement in-world and in our online channels. I will do that today
[11:13] IAintNo Ballyhoo: Since the amendment was for 30 days comment, perhaps sam was correct about amending the amendment?
[11:13] Legal Writer: OK, let's skip credentialing. FOor tim's sake.
[11:13] Legal Writer: Time is short.
[11:13] Legal Writer: I think we will report on the feedback we receive between now and the next meeting.
[11:13] Legal Writer: Then we can report to the group what we've heard.
[11:14] Legal Writer: And then get further instructions from the group then.
[11:14] IAintNo Ballyhoo: :-)
[11:14] Cat Galileo: I move that the amendment be amended to post a summary of this discussion, link to transript, and deadline to comment, and put out an announcement in-world and in our online channels. Deadline to be may 2. Ex board to report on results at may 11 meeting.
[11:14] Cat Galileo: sorry bad grammar there
[11:14] Legal Writer: If they still want a thirty day notice AFTER next meeting, we can proceed.
[11:14] Morgandy Monigal: second
[11:14] Legal Writer: As they want.
[11:14] Legal Writer: All in favor?
[11:15] Morgandy Monigal: aye
[11:15] Aisln Baxton: aye
[11:15] Geri Kuhn: Aye
[11:15] Sam4 Courtois: move unanimous
[11:15] Sam4 Courtois: consent
[11:15] TelLagu Swords: aye
[11:15] Sam4 Courtois: aye
[11:15] Lincoln Beck: aye
[11:15] Legal Writer: Anyone opposed?
[11:15] Ashcroft Burnham: Aye.
[11:15] Ashcroft Burnham: Oops...
[11:15] Ashcroft Burnham: Too late.
[11:15] Ashcroft Burnham: I meant aye, not opposed.
[11:15] Ashcroft Burnham: Nto aye, opposed.
[11:15] raphaella Nightfire: aye
[11:15] Ashcroft Burnham: Nay to being opposed...
[11:15] Legal Writer: OK, motion carries.
[11:16] Legal Writer: We're skipping credentials for time. Lexis is not here anyway.
[11:16] Legal Writer: Cat, speaker series. Can you please introduce your talk, date, etc?
[11:17] Cat Galileo: To get the momentum going on speaker series, I will present an encore of my Web 2.0 class, expanded to twho hours, on April 25 (2 weeks)
[11:17] Cat Galileo: will offer 2 hours CLE credit in CA
[11:17] Cat Galileo: and include handouts
[11:17] Cat Galileo: I am seeking speakers for further sessions - generally 1 hours
[11:18] Cat Galileo: generally but not necessarily on VW issues.
[11:18] Cat Galileo: Any comments?
[11:18] Cat Galileo: questions?
[11:18] Legal Writer: Thank you, Cat.
[11:18] Sam4 Courtois: Great, Thank you
[11:18] Legal Writer: We appreciate your willingness to expand your offering and speak about it this month.
[11:18] Sam4 Courtois: The last one was very interesting and informative
[11:19] Cat Galileo: dovetails with one i'm doing for work on 4/16
[11:19] Legal Writer: OK, please contact Cat if you would like to speak at our group.
[11:19] Cat Galileo: in light of that I won't be charging either
[11:19] Cat Galileo: since it's cannibalizing work i was paid for at work.
[11:19] Sam4 Courtois: Evenbetter.
[11:19] Morgandy Monigal: thanks for that
[11:19] Legal Writer: Thank you again, Cat.
[11:19] Legal Writer: OK, let's move on.
[11:19] Legal Writer: Careers fair -- seems that the economy is tough right now.
[11:20] Legal Writer: We have had limited interest in the fair. Ben Noble, at Pillsbury, was driving the idea through his firm.
[11:20] Ashcroft Burnham wonders whether there'd be any interest in careers involving working for free and living from soup kitchens.
[11:20] Legal Writer: But other firms are hesistant to do a lot of recruiting -- and spending any money for it -- when there is a glut of lawyers, and people are getting laid off.
[11:21] Morgandy Monigal: yeah, plenty to go around.
[11:21] Legal Writer: So -- during our Exec Board meeting, we thought of a different kind of career fair -- one for prelaw students who are considering going into law.
[11:21] Legal Writer: We could have volunteer panelists talk about their careers.
[11:21] Cat Galileo: so we can talk them oujt of it. (Ijust kidding)
[11:21] Legal Writer: Well, I think a frank assessment of the job market is part of what people need to hear.
[11:21] Geri Kuhn laughs
[11:21] Legal Writer: So it's not as startling as it might seem.
[11:22] Legal Writer: Anyway, do people think this is a good idea -- to change the focus of the career fair?
[11:22] Morgandy Monigal: I do.
[11:22] Cat Galileo: i can talk about the wonders of being a law librarian - 8:30 to 5 hours, decent pay, no partners yelling at you.
[11:22] Legal Writer: :-)
[11:22] Morgandy Monigal: sign me up
[11:22] Sam4 Courtois humms "Mothers don't let your babies grow up to be lawyers."
[11:23] Cat Galileo: then mention that our last opening had 30 qualified applicatins :(
[11:23] raphaella Nightfire: lol.. mine did.. despite all warnings
[11:23] Legal Writer: Ok, let's do that. We need someone to help coordinate this event. Any volunteers?
[11:24] Cat Galileo: when do applications go in?
[11:24] Cat Galileo: for law school i mean
[11:24] Legal Writer: I think we can put out a call for volunteers via messaging too.
[11:24] Morgandy Monigal: apps are in around now.
[11:24] Legal Writer: I believe apps start in the fall so that would be a good time.
[11:25] Cat Galileo: ok, we can target next year's crop (along with anyone interested) in the fall.
[11:25] Morgandy Monigal: It may be targeted for folks in the middle of their schooling, as well
[11:25] Cat Galileo: yes
[11:25] Legal Writer: More generally, while we are speaking of volunteers, I would like to see if we can get a volunteer whose only job it is to recruit other volunteers.
[11:25] Morgandy Monigal: better to do the advertising during the regular term
[11:26] Legal Writer: It would be a way to serve the associaiton with limited time commitment.
[11:26] Legal Writer: THis would be a person who would have the role - "Director of Membership" or something like that.
[11:26] Morgandy Monigal: ok, I'll do that, but will need some help on logistics of our communications.
[11:26] Morgandy Monigal: a good wat to start
[11:26] Legal Writer: Thank you, Morgandy. That's very kind of you.
[11:26] Cat Galileo: Morgandy, as VP of communications I would like to work with you on that, and any suggesitons welcomed
[11:26] Morgandy Monigal: way
[11:26] Morgandy Monigal: great!
[11:26] Legal Writer: I am sure that Cat can help.
[11:27] Legal Writer: OK, terrific.
[11:27] Legal Writer: Any other business is the last category.
[11:27] Geri Kuhn: I have one item
[11:27] Legal Writer: Solomon wanted me to ask whether anyone is going to the INTA meeting in Seattle.
[11:27] Legal Writer: It may be possible to meet with Solomon in person.
[11:28] Legal Writer: Geri?
[11:28] Geri Kuhn: No, he asked me to say the same.
[11:28] Geri Kuhn: Thanks
[11:28] Legal Writer: I guess that's a "no."
[11:28] Legal Writer: OK, I will pass that along.
[11:28] Legal Writer: In any case, thank you for coming to our meeting - and staying on.
[11:28] Legal Writer: I appreciate your support of the association.
[11:29] Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you for hosting it :-)
[11:29] Legal Writer: I hope everyone has a great holdiay weekend.
[11:29] Sam4 Courtois: May I suggest that for planning purposes, we schedule future meetings for 90 minutes so that we don't runout of time?
[11:29] Legal Writer: I hope to see you next month.
[11:29] Cat Galileo: not a bad idea Sam4.
[11:29] raphaella Nightfire: :)
[11:29] Legal Writer: I may be tied up in a lengthy trial, but if so, someone else will be running the meeting.
[11:29] Legal Writer: Otherwise, I will see you next month.
[11:29] Legal Writer: Thanks, all.
[11:29] Ashcroft Burnham: Best wishes with the lengthy trial :-)
[11:30] Sam4 Courtois: Thank you Legal
[11:30] Cat Galileo: I will go ahead and change the length, we can alwasy adjourn early.
[11:30] Legal Writer: Thank you.
[11:30] Geri Kuhn: Thank you , Legal.
[11:30] raphaella Nightfire: :)) Good luck
[11:30] raphaella Nightfire: and happy outcomes!
[11:30] Sam4 Courtois: Happy Easter everyone
[11:30] Cat Galileo: Meeting adjourned?
[11:30] Legal Writer: Thank you.
[11:30] Legal Writer: Meeting is adjourned.
[11:30] TelLagu Swords: Bye all.